I previously blogged about our Firm being ready to represent those in Pike and Monroe Counties, who have been aggrieved by the Pennsylvania State Police’s (PSP) actions, including removing them from their homes and conducting warrantless searches of their vehicles. If you are one of those individuals, in preparation for vindicating your rights, there are several things you should do:
- If a law enforcement officer stops you in your vehicle, you only need to produce your driver’s license, insurance and proof of registration. You do NOT need to speak with any LEO. You do NOT need to answer any of their questions. You should merely ask whether you are free to leave. If they say no, you should IMMEDIATELY demand your attorney, stay steadfast in that demand, and demand their name and badge number. NEVER consent to any search, regardless of what they promise or threaten. Be prepared for them to threaten you with obtaining search warrants to search your vehicle/home and with charging. If they think they can get a warrant, make them.
- Start keeping track of damages that you are incurring as a result of their deprivation of your Rights:
- If you have been removed from your home, keep track of all your receipts related to your hotel and board that you had to pay for. Remember, eating out is much more expensive then cooking at home.
- When you get home, document what was in your refrigerator and what has gone bad or since expired.
- If you missed deadlines for paying your bills because they were at your residence, immediately notify the business upon your return, explaining that you could not pay timely because of the situation. Keep a copy of that letter and any communications that you receive in response.
- Document through whatever means available to you the date and time that you were excluded from your home and the date and time you were permitted re-entry.
- If you had to drive your child to school because he/she could not get on the bus from your home, keep track of what days you had to take them to school and the miles you drove. If you normally drive your child to school but now had to traverse an additional distance, keep track of that extra mileage.
- Document the name and badge number of every officer that you come into contact with and what the officer said or did to you.
Just because one of their brethren was murdered does not give them a right to violate YOUR Rights. When is the last time that such a manhunt occurred in relation to the single killing of a non-law enforcement/political person? Yeah, I can’t remember a time either….
Prince Law Offices Blog 
Are you kidding me with this shit???? I hope nothing of this sort ever happens to you!!! You would also be the first one to sue if they didn’t check you car!!! This makes me sick the police are doing their best to keep everyone safe!!!
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Dawn perhaps you need a nanny state to watch over you but some don’t appreciate being treated like livestock or criminals. The police are trying to catch someone who they think murdered one of their own and the public safety is not a priority and the courts have consistently ruled they have no duty to provide that.
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ACLU does the same thing when people’s rights are violated.
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The police a liars and messed up You must be married to one to say this they are corrupt as shit
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thanks for standing up to inform people what to do.
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Shame on you! I hope most people see your selfish grab at lawsuits for what it is…. pathetic! I bet if that maniac was hiding on your property, you’d want every police officer doing everything they could to catch him for YOUR safety! In fact, I hope every officer reads your advertisement and remembers your name. Way to do your part to make your county and it’s residents feel safer. Again….. PATHETIC!
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Amy, are you insane? Our rights are being completely violated. If I lived in that area and that maniac was on my property, you can bet my wife and I would have no issue defending our family. Relying on the police to do so is absolutely insane, especially when it takes them 10 minutes to get to your property in most cases. As Andrew said above,
If a maniac kidnapped one of your family members, do you think you would see the same reaction from the PSP or any other law enforcement organization? I think not.
“perhaps you need a nanny state to watch over you but some don’t appreciate being treated like livestock or criminals. The police are trying to catch someone who they think murdered one of their own and the public safety is not a priority and the courts have consistently ruled they have no duty to provide that.”
The point here is the PSP are using this situation to completely disregard our rights. As a father and husband with a beautiful little girl, I can tell you if I was forced out of my home and made to live in a red cross shelter, you bet I would be pressing charges for rights violations. My house is MY house and MY land. I will not be forced out of it. I would not trust the PSP to “defend” me or my family against a mad man. I can defend my own family and house just fine, I do not need the PSP to disregard my rights. Joshua Prince/Prince Law Offices are absolutely prestigious and are not out “to get your money”. Joshua and his firm are one of the last remaining few organizations left fighting for our rights that are constantly being disregarded.
Did you bother reading the full blogs about the situation the past few days? An excellent point is made; which I will quote below:
“Just because one of their brethren was murdered does not give them a right to violate YOUR Rights. When is the last time that such a manhunt occurred in relation to the single killing of a non-law enforcement/political person? Yeah, I can’t remember a time either…..”
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Your views are right up there with the fugitives. Any husband, father, mother, wife, of course would have an instinct to protect their family. … And the good sense to know that the police wanting to protect them by bringing them to a shelter was for their safety as well. .. Not because they are all locking you up and laughing “just because they can”. Are you serious Kevin? You are grasping for a reason to sue and scream “you violated my rights”. Why don’t you really show the authority how upset you are that they attempted to keep your family safe by burning a flag! And if you read how well trained the terrorist hiding in our woods is and you feel you want to put the life of your child in the line…. what is that saying about you?
Our officers are doing absolutely everything they can to keep YOUR children safe and you are going to attack them for it? I bet you already have your law suit in line. SMH
Fire fighters are putting out a a fire in your home and your child is trapped on the 2nd floor and a fireman holds you down outside, knowing that sending in firefighters wearing the right gear will be safer and smarter to rescue your child…… Would you want to sue the firemen for violating your rights as well?
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Wow, there is just no reasoning with people like you Amy. Not sure how my views can be considered right up there with the fugitive’s views, that is a pretty ridiculous statement. I am aware of his training. It wouldn’t change the fact that my home is secure, and no one is getting in without me knowing it. I don’t need any officer what-so-ever to keep my child safe. My wife and I have the proper tools, and are fully capable of defending our children and ourselves without having to wait for police to come to our aid. I do not need to be in a shelter with my 1 year old daughter, when I can be safely secure in our home, with the proper tools to defend it. I do not rely on other people for help or “saving”. Once again I will say, do you see the same reaction from police/PSP in other situations where one of there members aren’t involved? The answer is a no, and that is a fact.
To humor your scenario that has an extremely small chance of ever happening; If my house was on fire and for some reason my child was stuck inside, I of course would allow firefighters into my home, there is no rights violation there. Going by your level of thinking, maybe they should move my entire neighborhood into a shelter while they put the fire out, even though no one is close enough to us for a fire to effect them.
Amy – trust your government, they will save and protect you from all harm.
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Amy:
By evacuating the neighborhood “for the residents’ own safety”, the PSP is potentially making an unsafe situation even more so. The alleged perpetrator (he has the right to be assumed innocent until proven guilty, even now) can be hiding inside any home or back yard, and nobody would know. How will the PSP find him then? By “clearing” properties, one by one, adrenaline up, rifles up, and fingers on triggers. It’s a recipe for an “accidental discharge”.
A better solution is to allow the residents to stay in their homes and provide a “tip line” to call if they see anything strange. An occupied home is FAR less likely to be used as a hideout by a stranger. And don’t forget, the Boston Marathon bomber – who somehow slipped through the police cordon intended to net him – was found when a home-owner discovered something amiss with the boat on his property. Only the home-owner could have that familiarity with his property, to notice something out of place.
With that solution, nobody’s rights are violated, and the PSP just might locate the guy more quickly than what they’re doing now.
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You summed it up, YOU DONT LIVE HERE. So unless you are actually going through this you have no right to comment.The people in the community are very respectful of what they are doing. Even feeding and getting donations to keep these officer going. So don’t act like you have any idea what is going on here when you don’t. Yes its an inconvenience but you did say you have a little girl do you really think in this situation you by your self can protect her good luck with that. Oh i’m sure the last thing they are thinking of is getting Eric, all they (PSP) want to do is violate peoples rights. How much did Joshua pay you for that shameless plug. He is nothing but an instigating ambulance chaser.
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Amy, I suggest you read and understand what the 5th Amendment says.
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You sir are a poor excuse for an American. Shame on you. And I hope someday you need law enforcements help but they lose your address.
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Are you freaking kidding me? Shame on you!!! Anything to make a quick buck! The PSP along with other law enforcement agencies are here to freaking protect us from this sick madman, and you are looking to start law suits! Smfh! Your Absolutely pathetic. Anyone who actually goes though with this is just down right heartless. Instead of patting your wallet in your office why don’t you do out and help the community and actually do some good? If Eric Frien didn’t kill a police officer and just a normal citizen and still caused all this havic I’m sure the same giant manhunt would be going on. Regardless if a police officer lost his life or not this man is sick and dangerous and needs to be taken off the street.
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You are a piece of pathetic crap!!! Its all about the $ with you shady Attorneys!!!
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Wow what a real piece of S#%# you are, trying to make a buck. You don’t belong in this area. And it should now be a goal to drive you out. Worthless, Disgusting way to show your support for your community and way to show which side of good and evil your on rot in a hole.
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Absolutely shameful. If I had any confidence at all that your motivation is the public interest, I would disagree and leave it at that. Unfortunately, your shameless grab at a quick suit does disservice to the larger community of the legal profession. The public (incorrectly) associates your actions with those of all attorneys. I certainly hope you and your firm receive national attention for your ‘concern.’
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Well then…… maybe we all should sue PennDOT for keeping us stuck in traffic and missing our appointments, being late for work and having our food defrost as we just got done shopping, because we’re stuck in traffic!
Can you help us with that Prince law Offices?
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This maniac Ambushed a Psp police barracks and stated he will take others down. He is a threat to society not just a Psp killer! If for any reason he is in someone’s back yard and comes up firing at the Police and an innocent bystander is home and gets hit with stray bullet/bullets. The 1st thing happening is gonna be why wasn’t anyone warned about him! Bottom line is.. this maniac can be hiding in your car or house with a gun pointed at you… reason for Police to search or look into your car or home! BeCause we all know again… if the Police don’t check and something happens to that person in their car or home…. 1st thing…Police get pointed at for not checking! Yes it is an inconvenience, yes people may miss an appointment or not be able to get home. This is happening for a reason! Don’t put it on him being a Psp killer only! He is a threat to society and the Families in that particular are where he is being spotted! People are calling in and informing the police, they hear shots fired or someone is knocking on their door or looking into their car. Do I think people have the right not to leave their home if they don’t want to.. yes they should have the right not to leave! But the Police should have every right not letting them back to their homes if an investigation or hunt is going on. So stay home and claim your rights and Pray this Maniac is not near your home… because the only people you can hope and count on to help you if he is in your back yard when you’re home is the POLICE!!
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Wow. Just, wow.
If the guy is a menace to society, the PSP should be asking for society’s help to catch him. Not evacuating out of their homes to a shelter where they’re unable to assist. The PSP in this case need as many eyes-and-ears as they can find, but they’re removing them from their homes, leaving them blind to the neighborhood. The alleged perpetrator could be in any home or back yard, and they wouldn’t know.
Oh, and you said, “because the only people you can hope and count on to help you if he is in your back yard when you’re home is the POLICE!!”
Since the police are all out on a manhunt, 9-1-1 response time could be measured in hours, and the police have no duty to protect me and mine when they do finally arrive (the Supreme Court has ruled on this, repeatedly). Until they get here, the only people I can hope and count on to help are myself and my wife.
If he appeared in my back yard, yes, I’d call the police. But I will not just “shelter in place” if he tries to break in or starts shooting. I’ll shoot back rather than let him riddle my home with bullets – any of which could injure or kill my family – uncontested while I wait for police response. Until they arrive, we are our own first responders and are the only people responsible for our own safety.
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Andrew and Kevin they don’t know if there is some one hiding this ass hole in there car this gives them the right to ask you to search your car and you have the right to say no and they will then detain you and get a search warrant if you want faster response times move to the city next to the police station they have to patrol because people want to live were there is no crowds and it is quiet if any body is insane its you to for wining about response times when you pick to live were you do there is others that don’t complain and you have ever right to defend your family and property and if you need to then do it but don’t knock the police for trying to do there job and have respect for those that offer to put down the lives to protect the public from assholes that want to invade our lived and due harm or take what is not there’s , with out them we would have more craziness around than we all ready have, Joe
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Are you insane? That absolutely does not give them the right to search anything or detain anyone without a proper legit warrant. Also, try using proper grammar, possibly take a typing class as well.
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Joe, in your scenario, what authority would they have to detain you? Furthermore, what probable cause would they have to obtain a search warrant? If a murder suspect is in my town/city, that gives the PSP and a judge probable cause that I committed, or was involved in, a crime to obtain a search warrant to search my person/property?
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They need probable cause to think the shooter is in your vehicle. No judge in their right mind would sign off on a warrant for a random vehicle search.
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I can assure you I will never use your law office. I work with a number of people that live in that area and the police protection is welcome. And while they may be temporarily inconvenienced, the good people of these areas understand, as you should, that their safety is of utmost importance.
Shame on you! If this is the only way you can drum up business, I question your ability as an attorney. You have become lower than ambulance chasers, and you should readjust your moral compass
A Proud Supporter of Our Pennsylvania State Police
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Lot of livestock/statist police apologists showing up to voice their opinions here BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both” Ben Franklin. When seconds count the police are minutes away. Wont anyone learn from history? This is a personal vendetta against the psp and possibly just the officers involved. I would not let them violate my rights. A big thank you to Prince Law and their timely advice. At least someone is standing up for WE THE PEOPLE. Btw, if this happened in my community I would be hitting the roof.
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Amen!!!!
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I couldn’t agree more with JS. Please stop your ranting about nanny police state. That is hardly what is happening. God help us that this is even an argument. Are you that money hungry, or just completely cynical and anti-government and law enforcement yourself? Either way, you have shown your colors and bad publicity is not always better than no publicity.
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Contrary to what you may think, this is actually great publicity. There are many many people that retain Mr. Prince’s services for the defending of our rights guaranteed by the US and PA constitutions. The same constitutions that the police swore to protect and serve. Many people tend to forget this fact. Illegal searches and violations of rights are exactly what is happening.
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When you have a problem, don’t call the police. Ungrateful!
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High paid ambulance chasers you are.
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Incorrect.
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ACLU does the same thing when people’s rights are violated. 5th amendment is there for a reason.
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George, you meant the 4th amendment, but yes, our rights do not get waived. I appreciate that Mr prince made this post in a very public service kind of way. We should recognize when our right are being disregarded, many here don’t seem to even realize or care.
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Scum bag you should be disbarred
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Kevin, its very apparent that you have been a used car salesman, and a politician. Congratulations, you’ve hit the trifecta!!
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I despise most politicians, and have never been a used car salesman. 🙂
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You should be ashamed of yourself and anyone who has the audacity to slither on the ground like you!
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A cut rate “law office” in disrepair. What a joke you people are . Scumbag lawyers.
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If you are really a cop, you ought to be ashamed for condoning unconstitutional activities and should lose your badge, Nazi.
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Horseshit. Go spend some time with the widow and children of the fallen Trooper. Maybe then you will see what’s important here… But you won’t. Your misread and greed in this is all you are interested in. Scum
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You people are ridiculous!!! I, for one, am very happy to have the police here helping out. It makes me feel safer. I suppose, if you have something to hide, or are doing illegal things, you would not want to have the PSP here to keep watch. The normal, law abiding citizen has no problem with the police being here. They are doing their job and keeping others safe without thought to their own safety.
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Wow! When you or your family are in harms way you are saying you will not call the police. You are saying you will defend yourself. Good luck with that. So if something would happen to your wife or daughter you are saying you will handle it yourself . Its shady lawyers like prince law office trying to promote their business. I will share this with every law enforcement barracks/office to show how the lawyers at Prince law office feel about the police.
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Just wondering, has anyone been removed from their home by force by the police? No one that I have seen on the news have said that. I have seen road closures that have prevented people from returning from or leaving their homes. This happens all the time in rural areas due to accidents, power lines down and many other things.
As far an non police manhunts, how about when Susan Smith claimed that someone abducted her children, Casey Anthony when police and the public searched huge tracts of private land looking for that little child. Lets not forget OJ, now there was a manhunt. Jon Benet Ramsey? That house was kept for weeks. In each and every case the police were aggressively looking for someone who murdered someone and none of those victims were police officers. Where were the lawyers in those situation? Not looking for the killers, but once they were found they looked for every trick in the book to get the found not guilty. They were mistreated as children, they were depressed, and lets not forget “if the glove don’t fit you have to acquit”
In defense of the profession of practicing law, this is their job and I believe it does make the police do a better job because of the system we have. To do anything less would be a disservice to the system. I may not like it all the time but it is what it is.
Do I think these police officers are trying to get this guy no matter what the cost? Sure! Probably not for the same reasons as you might think though. Any individual evil enough to attack a police officer is even a greater threat to a member of the public.
For those that want to stay in their homes and put their family in harms way unnecessarily, I believe Darwin called that natural selection. I cant see why someone would want to do that but it is their choice.
If someone out there reading this was prevented from returning to your home I think you should add up all those costs and when you get the total ask yourself is it worth your life of your spouses or children. I’m pretty sure you’d say no, but there are always those that might disagree.
When I was a child, Lawyers were people I was taught to look up to. They were people that fought the good fight, Prosecutors protected the public and the defense attorneys made sure that all the i’s were dotted and T’s crossed. It is a shame that it has come to this. I will add this to this no mistakenly pro police comment, and if anyone has had a different outcome I would be surprised. I was a victim of a crime once, a theft. It was a considerable amount of money and the police came and investigated. wait for it…….Unfortunately they never found the criminal, but I had insurance and the insurance company reimbursed me for my loss. When it was all said and done the police didn’t take 33 and 1/3 plus costs of the insurance company check.
Lastly, when’s the last time a lawyer changed your tire on the side of the road, or came to help you when your car broke down or get stuck in the road? when is the last news article you saw where a lawyer pulled someone from a wrecked or burning car, or jumped into the flooding waters to pull someone from their vehicle? whens the last time you saw the funeral of a lawyer, who gave his life to save a strangers life? Just like you counselor, I can’t remember a time either……….
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Hang in there, Mr. Prince. Protecting rights may not be popular here. But precedents set in this instance, left unchallenged, will be used to justify violations of rights later. There is always a “good reason” to ignore the law and the constitution, it seems.
It is entirely appropriate to remind the State that it is just when the need is most pressing that the most attention must be paid to the law and the procedures attendant thereto. Because the State, left to its own devices, is always a greater threat to liberty than any criminal.
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Bout time someone stands up for these people’s due process and liberty (aka freedom of movement). TY Mr Prince.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
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The FACT is that if it had been a couple of convenience store clerks who were ambushed, this wouldn’t be happening. What, exactly, makes this guy MORE dangerous than someone who went after store clerks or used car salesmen?
No. The police are clearly violating the fourth amendment and they need to be brought to book over this.
The police CANNOT be permitted to exercise superior rights over us. That way lies totalitarianism.
I’m disheartened that so many people are blind to this basic fact.
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I disagree. The FACT is that the police put forth the effort necessary to bring an investigation to its conclusion. I think that if this murderer had simply surrendered and didn’t take off into the woods he would be in custody like most murders are. I think that you want to make this more than it is.
How are the police violating the 4th amendment? give me an example. If you know someone who was physically removed from their house by force, or whose vehicle was searched without their permission, then bring them forward. If not, then you have nothing to say about anyone’s rights, since hence they weren’t violated.
What makes this person more dangerous than someone who shoots an unarmed, probably untrained, definitely overworked and underpaid store clerk is the store clerk is unarmed. The store clerk isn’t trained in hand to hand combat, or the use of other weapons (night stick, taser, mace). Therefore making the store clerk a much easier target to attack. So, if someone chooses to attack someone whose received so much training both with and without weapons its is simple to see that they are a greater threat to someone without such training. Unless of course you need to make a negative point about the government or law enforcement.
Say what you like, but without the police it would just be like that movie the purge, but once again I’m sure some people would like that.
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how about the fact that apparently this site tracks your IP address after your first post, hows that for an invasion of privacy
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That’s a standard WordPress feature.
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You would do anything to make money. Shame on you for trying to cash in on a tragedy. Totally disgusting law firm has absolutely no morals at all.
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You are the reason many people don’t trust lawyers. You should be ashamed of yourself. You take protecting and serving and turn it into violating rights. Shame on you and on all those that think like you. Not everything is about making a buck.
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Absolutely disgusting! The sad thing is there will be some people who contact this asshole!
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I noticed the majority of negative comments were from women who probably just adore lure of uniforms anyway and the rest seem to be LEO’s or possibly relatives or friends of such. The main comments did reflect an objection to any violation of Constitutional Rights and made no comments derogatory of Law Enforcement other than of these specific violations on topic. Lawyers?… Well, they are Officers of the Courts as well and what would then be expected?
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now why cant you just defend your position, why do you have to drop to the level of bringing sexuality into the conversation? So let me get this right, if they agree with you they are strong confident women, but…..if they don’t agree with you well they must be badge bunnies. That’s the same thing as me saying to you if you agree with the police stay, if you don’t well you need to fill out paperwork to be a citizen, but anytime you want you’re more than welcome to live somewhere else.
Furthermore, “Price Law Firm” please discontinue from tracking my IP address in my computer. I have cleared my cache several time, but every time I bring up this site my name and email continue to show up in the box. Please stop violating my rights. maybe I should contact an atty myself.
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I’ve also printed this page with a time stamp to show the date and time of my request. Don’t say I didn’t tell you so.
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No one is forcing you to visit here or keep commenting. You have no case.
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You should be ashamed of yourself! You are a sad excuse for a man. May you be treated with the same respect you are treating our troopers with. There is a murderer on the loose. They are trying to catch him and protect everyone. Common friggin sense people! You make me sick! Ungrateful…that’s what you are. I hope you don’t make a cent off this sick scam.
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You are the biggest asshat ever. You should be ASHAMED of yourself. Your 911 privileges should be revoked. DICK.
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You sir are a pathetic human being. This is exactly what is wrong with society these days. It’s not like PSP is just randomly searching people and houses for not god damn reason! There is a murderer on the run who is a danger to anyone and everyone he may come into contact with. If he killed a Trooper, who else is he willing to kill? This mission of PSP is not only to catch this coward, but also to prevent any “non-law enforcement/political person” from being hurt or killed. Their actions are for the protection of citizens. You are obviously a greedy bastard looking for more money and anyone that agrees with your nonsense is a moron.
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Andrew, Kevin, Steve, and Jon: Thank you. When there are that many comments that try to shame someone for giving some advice about how to preserve one’s rights as guaranteed under the U.S. and PA constitutions, it is truly eye opening as to how our nation, once revered for its independent and hardy citizens, has been replaced by those that would be subservient and jubilantly welcome those abuses by government entities that are supposed to be our Public Servants.
And for those saying, “you should be ashamed of yourself”, etc., etc…..:go ahead and cower to the agents of the State as they hunt down a man who has murdered one of their own. It’s not to enact justice. It’s revenge.
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And for those “right fighters”. It is not about rights. It is about life or death. Save constitutional speeches for cases where it actually applies. Who knows you are all probably the lawyers in this practice trying to swim in mud for the swamp you have just created. Which one of these lawyers will be the first to knock on Eric’s cell door if he gets out of this alive?
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Maybe you would like to search for that mad man instead if trying to profit from a horrible situation. These officers are putting their lives on the line to protect YOUR safety. Now is not the time to be soliciting business. You are what gives lawyers a bad name. Go “lawyer” yourself!
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All you “I have rights” pencil pushers make me sick. Would you tell the widow and the kids of this Trooper the things you are posting here? Their dad and thousands of other LEO’s put their lives on the line everyday to protect you and I. If you were the victim of a crime, you would all be crying like babies saying to the bad guy “but I have rights!” Sad, sad individuals. I applaud PSP and all law enforcement on their efforts and pray for their safety.
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So we just get to suspend the constitution then? I mean, why even bother with it? It makes the lives of cops so difficult, why don’t we just burn it? Why have rules? We can just have rule of whatever the authorities want. We can just summarily execute this guy and burn down the whole neighborhood if that’s what it takes to catch him!
Sadly, I think a lot of you posting here would be fine with that. Jesus wept! Listen to yourselves! Think about what you’re saying and what the consequences are. Think about other societies have come to that have followed the path of not holding government agents to account.
I have nothing against cops. I hope they catch this guy, because what he did is unconscionable. But cops have the follow the rules, always. You don’t get to suspend the Constitution because it’s one of your own. We are a nation of laws, and the laws apply to the police too.
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What rule was broken? Whose rights were violated? I’ve asked all I have seen posting about the rights violation, and none of you can name a name. I call BULL***T.
If the police ask to look in your house and you say yes, taht’s not a violation of your rights. That’s your choice to allow them to do that. If they ask to look through your car and you say yes, that’s not a violation of your rights.
To say IF they did this or IF they did that….they either did or didn’t and so far it’s coming up DIDN’T.
its no wonder we are 50th in the world in math and 70th in science
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I don’t know. That’s what Josh Prince is trying to find out. There have been reports of cops searching every vehicle, and preventing people from returning to their homes. I read one news story that suggest they arrested and roughed up a homeowner who tried to return to his home against their “orders”. If it’s all bullshit, and all the compliance was voluntary, then there’s no case or controversy here. But if that’s not the case, then rights have been violated, and I think that’s actually pretty serious.
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Marc, if no rights were violated, then you shouldn’t be concerned one whit by what services this lawyer is offering. Indeed, no one will contact this lawyer for services.
But if the news reports are true, then it’s entirely appropriate to sue the PSP for what they did. We’ve seen this kind of police action in Denver, and in Boston. Now we see this activity in Pennsylvania. If it doesn’t stop, it’s going to reach where I live (Utah), and it’s also going to get worse.
I’ve seen several people say that the police should have done anything, at whatever cost. Does this include burning down houses? Cutting down trees and bushes, so that the suspect couldn’t hide? Shooting people in the woods, only to confirm that they aren’t the suspect?
At what point does this end?
I remember one person talking about how a similar incident happened in the 1980’s. The police stopped everyone, gave them a brief explanation of what was happening and showed a picture of the suspect, and gave out contact information. Why is searching people’s vehicles and homes without warrant, and forcing people out of their homes, somehow “safer” than this?
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According to statistics compiled by the Cato Institute, police officers have a significantly lower chance of dying on the job than the average citizen. I’m not suggesting being a cop is easy in many areas of the state and country, but there simply is no evidence that police work is more dangerous than say farming. The likely reason for this is that cops eliminate, ie, kill, those they perceive as presenting the slightest threat. This is a rational response from the standpoint of self-preservation, but it’s at odds with–and needs to be balanced against–our founding principles. The disequilibrium has been growing steadily since 9/11.
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I see the overfed thugs at the State Police barracks are pulling a double shift tonight making sock-puppet accounts to insult a lawyer for daring to speak up against their criminal assaults on the lives and property of innocent people. “OMG! How dare you! There’s a murderer on the loose! You should be happy to be evicted from your home at gun point or be forced to sleep in your car on the side of the road! Y U NO BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP THE POLICE?”
Keep at ’em, Mr. Prince, and pay no mind to these cowards and lickspittles. There’s a whole country of people fed-up with these police state abuses, and we’re behind you.
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Who got removed from their house by gunpoint from the police. I dare you to name a name. You can’t because it never happened.
Secondly, if you have lived in the great nation your whole life, you have NO IDEA what it is like to live in a police state. You should try it because you would come back to this country and be silently happy for the remainder of you days.
All I can say about those who think….think that the police are tough here is that you have lived and extremely sheltered life. You have experienced no hardships, no shortages, no suffering of any kind. I would venture to say you still live in your parents basement or worse yet they support you entirely. You need to get some world experience, and I truly mean this. I’m not trying to be mean or condescending, I really think you need to look at the bigger picture here and realize that you have it better than most people on this planet
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Shorter version: You should be thankful the police here only violate your rights on occasion, rather than making a habit out of it like they do in other countries. So take it, softy! Constitutional rights aren’t important anyway.
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I’m also sure that those people who have moved here to flee from police states are happy to have little reminders here of what it was like in their homelands!
Now, if we could only come up with a little bit of hardship and shortages, our immigrants will feel right at home…
(And never mind that a sudden police state in America is far less likely than one that gradually grows from incidents like this…)
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams
I just dont get people sometimes. Ok, agree with the police in this instance. What happens next? Oh there’s a dangerous drug dealer in the neighborhood, so we’re gonna search door to door and go through cars. Things like this always escalate. There is no case in human history where liberty was lost, and regained without massive expenditures of blood and or treasure. As we give police large powers over us, it is well within our rights to expect them to not only follow the law, but follow it to the letter, no matter what case is going on.
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I dont agree with your point but you have one. My argument here is..If they ask and you say yes then no violation. If they ask and you say no and they do it anyway, then yes your rights are violated. the problem I have is hearing about the police stat, with nothing to back it up. no one said no that I am hearing about. unless you have other information.
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Just this morning I saw a video made by a Boston resident, who pointed out that when you have a gun pointed in your face, it’s kindof hard to say “no” to a police search.
Marc, why are you so against a lawyer asking everyone whether or not rights were violated? If you are right, then this lawyer isn’t going to have any business from this; if you are wrong, however, then this lawyer’s actions are going to help preserve our liberties.
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+1 to Mr. Prince. Thank you for standing up for our rights, and may your cases set wonderful precedent.
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Could you sue the church for me while you’re at it? It rained last week while I was golfing. I’d taken the day off work and didn’t even get to finish my round. God has clearly taken away my god given right to do whatever I want whenever I want without anything inconvenient every happening. Sure, the rain might have been good for the plants and the crops and the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and pretty much all life in general, but what about MY right to play golf???!!!!
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So you are saying that the State is God, and that official representatives of the State (in this case, PSP) should be able to do whatever they please? That searching homes and cars without probable cause, and keeping people from going home, is the equivalent of raining on a golf game–and that such actions are good for the plants and the crops and the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and pretty much all life in general?
I don’t think I could express in words how creepy I find such a mindset.
Sue God if you want, and sue the church for that matter, but our Government is not divinely appointed; instead, it is made of humans, and all humans have darkness in their hearts. The Constitution was designed to keep the darkness that is found in all our hearts at bay, to keep Government from hurting the People.
If you destroy all Law in an attempt to get the Devil, where will you hide, and what will protect you, when the Devil comes after you? I, for one, would give the Devil the benefit of Law, so that the Law will keep the Devil in check when he comes after me.
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The point that the police response would be far less robust for any other type of murder victim is a good one. And it is not obvious to me that Frein is more dangerous to the general public than the extensive list of fugitives that is currently at large after committing other heinous murders on non-police victims. I think Mr. Prince makes some good points, and like him, I am very concerned with the ever-increasing problems of police overreach and militarization. It’s to the benefit of PSP to keep the public in a panicked frenzy, thereby making excessive police instrusions seem reasonable. On the other hand, I think Mr. Prince’s apparent play for clients in this context to be in poor taste.
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Mr Prince and his staff care about your rights and protections, he and his staff are kind people that give you their full attention. He helped me when I was assaulted by the strong arm of the law, when I was arrested for pushing my disabled daughter in her stroller while walking my 6 year old son while carrying a legally licensed concealed weapon. After my arrest the County tried to take my kids and children and youth harassed me for months. If it wasn’t for Mr. Prince and his staff and their knowledge and expertise as well as their firm belief in the US Constitution, I would be sitting in jail with no kids and a wife on welfare. Mr Prince is a good man and I was recommended to him by my local county Sheriff who issues the gun carry permits in my county.
I suggest you people that have a complaint to voice, be great full that people like Mr Prince are their to protect your constitutional rights.
I also suggest you all think how screwed we are if the shit really does hit the fan, if we as US Citizens don’t have the right to protect ourselves in the future. The law is looking for one man for the last 12 days, what if a future tragedy happens in the future in multiple locations and it was more then one man, could the law protect us all everywhere, at all times.
I say no they can’t and that is why I carry a weapon 24 hours a day.
Nothing will be solved if this accused killer is shot and killed by the law and not arrested, arraigned, and judged by a jury of his peers.
The cops that arrested me violated my rights and since I was a law abiding citizen my whole life if it wasn’t for Mr Prince and the County Sheriff educating me on my rights, my life would have be ruined.
Thank You Mr Prince, I am proud to call you a friend and fellow human
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I guess when you love America and the freedom the constitution stands for, you see this situation as frightening gun grab police state practice run. When your head is in the clouds, you have no idea what Media Mind Control is and you live in imagination land and find it threatening to think any other way than popcorn and cotton candy. Thank God there are decent men/law firms who do care about America, and will fight for the constitution and the rights of those who foolishly choose safety over freedom. When you don’t understand something, you are threatened and have to insult others to keep your reality safe… There is a storm coming, and many will not be ready.
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There are important legal principles at stake here, not just “legalities.” They concern justice, fairness, and constitutional rights.
Generally it’s ok for cops to set up a traffic stop if they stop EVERYONE and treat everyone consistently, like a DUI “Checkpoint” on New Years Eve. In the DUI context, that does not give them the right to search the car unless they have “reasonable suspicion” that a law has been broken, eg you’re visibly drunk, or there is blood all over the interior of the car, etc. Of course they can ask for you consent to search the car, and if you give it to them there’s no need for “reasonable suspicion.” (To search your house they need “probable cause” which requires even more evidence of foul play, or you can just consent.) In the case of searching for a fugitive, I am not sure they can require every car to pop the trunk without specific and individual reasonable suspicion of the individual at the checkpoint. I would be okay with that. Perhaps someone can fill us in.
When I read this story this morning about people not being able to return to their homes for a very extended period of time, I thought to myself that I would be upset and I wonder about the principles of fairness, justice and constitutional rights here.
We often hear about people kept from their homes when there’s a wildfire or other natural disaster. That’s ok in my book because there’s probably little the homeowner can do, and they will not only be in the emergency crews way, but may get in trouble and require evacuation, or otherwise burden emergency crews.
But with a fugitive it feels a little different. The homeowner may have more of a fundamental right based on the Constitution and case law to be at home in this scenario, and protect her castle as she sees fit. It’s not an “act of God” (eg Fire, flood) but the risk of an intruder, something that homeowners face every day.
If they keep me from returning to protect my home/family in this case, I would expect it to be of a very limited scope: one subdivision at a time, based on very specific information, then let the residents back after no more than a few hours. Not multiple neighborhoods and not overnight unless the circumstances are extremely dire, like siege, gunmen and hostages.
The problem is not that cops are bad people. The problem is that cops are just people. Most people tend to over-reach convention when they think they are justified. “Well these are ‘exigent circumstances’ so we are going to impose the equivalent of martial law on multiple neighborhoods over a huge area for an undetermined period of time because we are the police and there is a grey area here and we simply believe the ends justify the means.” Well, no, not necessarily, that’s why we have courts and a constitution. Cops are just people, but people with a lot of power, so we need to keep them in check. Search and seizure law is supposed to be “minimally intrusive.” Sometimes this is an inconvenience to police. So be it.
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Clarification: I’m ok w/ police requiring every car to pop the trunk if they set up a checkpoint looking for a fugitive. Of course popping every car trunk, like everything else in life in this world, is subject to abuse by the authorities (eg: looking for a fugitive is a pretext to do searches for something else). So we need lawyers, judges, and juries.
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I know you’re trying to take a balanced view, but I am most assuredly not OK with a checkpoint requiring every car to pop the trunk. And believe me, I have a fairly humdrum life and have nothing to hide. But by popping the trunk, the contents of the trunk would conveniently be placed in plain view, and that would lead to problems unrelated to the purpose of the checkpoint for some. Let’s just stick with the principles of reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Detention is unconstitutional without the former, and arrest is unconstitutional without the latter. So even with “reasonable suspicion” (which allows a “Terry stop” during which a cop can search your outer garments for weapons that might pose a threat to the officer, but nothing more) an involuntary search of the trunk would be off-limits. Jealously guard and protect your rights! Otherwise it’s a slippery slide into totalitarianism.
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Nick, thank you for the response. I wasn’t sure about that. With the plain view doctrine — not to mention the vast potential for pretextual searches — I take your point very seriously about involuntary searches of every car trunk for a fugitive at a checkpoint as being very problematic. A checkpoint on a lonely county road is quite different after all from one at a border crossing, airport, or government compound. And new difficult 4th & 5th Amendment questions will continue to emerge, especially with technology. Hopefully our decision makers today will not only adhere closely the precedents set by our oh-so-wise wise founding fathers, but will wrestle with these new questions with the same kind of extreme caution and forethought, devoid of the public passions of the moment.
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I’m just a person too and my own heart and head are certainly very susceptible to passion, so, I’m not judging or criticizing anyone.
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