If ATF Comes A Knocking, Only Surrender Your 80% Frame or Receiver Under Protest!

As many in the Firearms Community are aware, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) raided Polymer80, Inc last week and since then, there is at least one report of a customer being visited by ATF and forced to surrender their “P80.” Given what appears to be ATF’s active enforcement of its interpretive jiggery-pokery, ever changing interpretations of the Gun Control Act and implementing regulations, it is important that any individual confronted by ATF regarding this newly minted interpretation, advise the agent that he/she is surrendering the items under protest, that you do not consent to the forfeiture or destruction of your property, and that you require a property receipt from ATF. Be aware that the agent may attempt to have you sign an ATF 3400.1 Form – Consent to Forfeiture or Destruction of Property and Waiver of Notice – which you should NOT sign under ANY circumstance. In the event that they ask you to sign an ATF 3400.1, inform them that the only ATF form you are willing to sign is an ATF 3400.23 – Receipt of Property and Other Items, as the ATF 3400.23 does not contain language, wherein you agree to the forfeiture/destruction of your property.

You should also attempt to take photos of your items, so you can prove the condition they were in when taken by ATF, as well as, find any receipts or other information relative to your purchase of the items. It would also be prudent to separately document your experience of the encounter in writing – such as the location, date, and time of your interaction with the ATF agent(s), the names or other identifying information (ID #, contact number, business card, etc.) of all ATF agents or persons you spoke with, the details of all discussions, and any other information they told or provided you. You should also demand a copy of the executed ATF 3400.23. If they tell you that they’ll mail you a copy, in addition to requesting that they do, you should take a photo of the executed form with your phone. After compiling all these documents and information, you should place them in a safe place.

So that there can be no misunderstanding on ATF’s part, I would strongly recommend sending a letter, consistent with the below, to the ATF Agent that took your item(s), because, in the event ATF elects to institute a forfeiture action, they are required to serve you with a copy and in that event, you should immediately contact an attorney, if you wish to challenge ATF’s ability to forfeit your property.

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

<insert field office address of ATF agent>

<Insert Date>

Dear Agent <Insert Last Name>:

As I informed you on <Insert Date> when you took my <Insert Items> (hereinafter “items”), I surrendered them under protest as I understand ATF contends that my continued possession of those items would result in my arrest and prosecution. As I dispute ATF’s contention and authority in this matter, I am only surrendering my items to preclude my arrest and prosecution. I do not consent to the destruction of my items nor do I consent to forfeiture of my items. I assert all of my rights pursuant to the U.S. Constitution and all applicable federal laws.

In the event ATF’s newly minted interpretation is enjoined or is deemed unlawful by a court of law, I expect ATF to immediately return my items, at no cost to me, and expect that ATF will not cause any damage or harm to them, while in its possession.

Thanking you for you time and assistance in this matter, I am

Yours Truly,

<insert name and address>

If your rights have been violated by ATF or another federal administrative agency, contact Firearms Industry Consulting Group today to discuss YOUR rights and legal options.


Firearms Industry Consulting Group® (FICG®) is a registered trademark and division of Civil Rights Defense Firm, P.C., with rights and permissions granted to Prince Law Offices, P.C. to use in this article.

80 thoughts on “If ATF Comes A Knocking, Only Surrender Your 80% Frame or Receiver Under Protest!

  1. Great suggestion however. Requesting a property receipt is pretty funny. Maybe ATF is nice and follow rules (yeah right) but my experience is that many alleged law enforcement agencies just refuse to give any paperwork. This is my experience as a retired Police Officer who has turned over bundles of drugs that I recovered on my curtilage and even provided Philadelphia Police with video tape of persons making hand to hand sales. I do agree with you that procedurally a property receipt should be provided by any LE agency to the person whom property is taken from or turned over. I always gave receipts for any property taken or recovered. In Philadelphia it is the blue copy “person surrendering”. It seems that a substantial amount of these 80 percent lowers just end up being trashed because it is not as easy to make them as advertised. Many people have trouble measuring inches and when they have to actually measure thousandths of an inch, well figure it out. Lol. Wish everyone well in difficult times.

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    1. Theae weapons have no serial numbers. So, it makes it harder for any law enforcement to track down the owner if these weapons are used in any violent crime. I myself have 2 guns and they are registered, as well as me having a permit. It is just a cheap way of having a gun. J believe in the 2nd amendment, being a veteran. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to have weapons. This item will just make more murders and no way of tracking the suspects.

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      1. What a stupid thing to say.. you do realize that before 1968 there was no legal requirement to apply a serial number to any firearm made whether it was in a factory or in your home right?if you own guns please go turn them in because you obviously aren’t a real second amendment supporter

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      2. You are incorrect on several counts. It is not cheap it costs as much to build one as it does to buy one. And anyone can make weapons of any legal to own type that is legal as it should be “shall not be infringed ” And these weapons these these weapons account for less than a hundred nationally. Long guns of any type account for very very few shootings and a great number of cases they are it was a person defending themselves. Research your facts you will find I am correct. Especially the “shall not be infringed” part. I can’t help it if you submitted to a registry of some sort but that is not supposed to be done and isn’t in MO. Criminals who use guns for crimes aren’t going to register them and they aren’t going to buy them they make them (zip guns etc) or the steal them. And in countries where they don’t allow citizen ownership the criinals steal them from police and or millitary. THEY are always gonna have them. They bring in 200.thousand tons of drugs each year, if it was lucrative don’t you think they will supply the criminals as many as they can send. And then, they will likely be getting millitary hardware like all the movies show. I doubt I”ve made a convert but I hope you will consider researching your fact.

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      3. even if they had serial numbers, bad guys typically grind them off, so it doesnt really matter anyway. Also, by the time you buy the lower, the jig, and all the parts to put it together, its really not that much cheaper if at all. Its really just a means for people to feel better about not giving info to the government on a 4473.

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      4. You are what we refer to as a fudd. You don’t truly support the 2A so don’t say you do. When the time comes you will happily hand over your guns. The 2A is clear. Shall not be infringed. That was a directive to the government that it was off limits and to not be touched. Are you that dumb to think criminals won’t get guns if they want them? I don’t know many criminals that would purchase an 80% lower to machine into a firearm. They want something quick and easy. All gun laws are illegal, period.

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      5. To the comment about just cheap way to get a gun. You clearly have never built an 80 percent handgun. It usually costs more, especially if I want to commit a crime I can buy an illegal gun for $100 on the street.

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      6. First let me say that you for your service, now these gun’s fall under our 2nd amendment I don’t care if it’s home made or bought from a gun store and where do you get that it’s a cheap way to get a gun? These Kit’s are not cheap really they cost more than a store bought gun and if a gun is made at home for your own personal use it does not require a serial number if you plan to sale or give it to someone then yes it will require the gun to have a serial number or some unique marking and should be registered, but just because a gun has a number on it doesn’t matter to criminals I’ve heard hundred’s of reports of gun’s being used in crime’s that have the serial number removed and when something like that happens these anti politician’s and anti gun group’s want to take every law abiding citizens gun’s away just because a gun was used in a crime that is nothing but infringement against our 2nd amendment this raid on p80 was nothing but a political move and a sign of things to come but I’m telling you gun owner’s and the whole 2a community is sick and tired of hearing some politician or group flapping their tongue everyday yelling more gun control these politician’s should never be elected to represent the people while trying to take our rights and freedom away there’s an Oath that most politician’s take when sworn in that state’s they will support and uphold the Constitution of the United States then within the next hour they wanting to take our rights away to them taking that oath is just a bunch of words with no meaning that’s what’s wrong with our country today elected by the people for the people, no now it’s not like that, it’s elected by people and to hell with the people, well I don’t know how I got on this politician shit,but I am a gun owner and I have the right and freedom to do so I support P80 they did absolutely nothing wrong what happened to them is clearly violating our 2nd Amendment 🔫🇺🇸🇺🇸

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      7. At least $500 to build, within 50$ of OEM. Most are more expensive. Criminals grind of the serials first thing. What you’re saying is you’re okay with gov keeping a registry of all firearms owned by legal, non-criminal citizens. Punish the good for the continued sins of the bad. That isn’t supporting the 2A.

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      8. You’re a disgrace to veterans if you can’t trust your fellow Americans with firearms. You have forgotten our history. We are not granted our right to keep & bear arms by the government, these inalienable rights come from a higher authority, God so to speak.

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      9. In a lot of states, “registration” of a firearm is NOT a requirement (other than a 4473 if it was sold by an FFL).

        If it ever passed thru a person-to-person sale, they can’t track it.

        If it was stolen, they can’t track it.

        Please specify what ATF can do if they track it to the original owner anyway? Purchasing a firearm that is subsequently sold and used in a crime doesn’t make the first owner liable.

        How often does a criminal purchase a gun legally, filling out the 4473, then leave the firearm at the scene of the crime?

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      10. Yo are certainly free to manage your own property as you see fit. But DO NOT attempt to impose your value set upon others. You are concerend that someone’s home built lower might end up being used in a crime. Fine. My Smoth SV 40 might also get stolen and used in a crime… if they dont file off the ubmers, it will trace back to ME, thus getting me into a pickle. I can hope I knew it was stolen and report it. OR they can simpy disapear the numbers, and we’re \right back to where we are with your unmarked lower, now built into a firearm.

        So what is your real point? Because somethign MIGHT happen to want to deprive ME of MY rights? I have the skills, and could easilyobtain the equim;ent, to make a functioinal firearm out of the scrap metal lying about in my shop and yard.Truck axle shafts make GREAT barrel material. And they’re nearly free, worth all of a nickel a pound sitting there under the old apple tree.
        MY response, should BTF goons nipping round to take my 80% lower wil be rather different. Firs,t what makes you think I HAVE one? Oh, yes, I did buy one.. at least. What makes you think I STILL have it? What makes you think I have or will build it itno a working firearm? Show me the specific section of US Code that precludes my ownership of a chunk of metal without a serial umber and incapable of firing anything? Show me the court issued search warrant that auhorises you to come and collett this item you claim I have, but have no proof for that claim. (I would only ay that IF I knew absolutley they could not find it, either because it is not here on my property, or because I have it so well hiden they will not find it). IF they bring a duly written warrant, I must allow them to search where they will.. except that that warrant must name the thing they are seeking, and tell where it may be found. “on my property” is not a sufficiently narrow “place”. If they do not have a warrant fully describing the item they seek AND where it is to be found, I will order them off my property.

        Until WE stand up to these clowns when they Aie out of line, they will continue to stretch that line as far as they feel they can get off with it. End it. Warrant, fully describing the item to be siezed, and where it is to be found, and explaining what sectioin of law enactd by COngress my
        possiession of which violates. . Or the door. Don’t let it slap you on the baskside as you exit.

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      11. The savings you imply is grossly exaggerated. The kit is by no means cheap.
        The right to self manufacture is a constant, which has ALREADY been established legally, Individuals that have the legal right to own a firearm may manufacture their own, said firearm can not be transferred. Any sale/transfer of same firearm is illegal unless precluded by obtaining a FFL.

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      12. the only right way to own a weapon is without government intrusion on our 2nd amendment right and the right way of owning a weapon comes with having been taught how to respect firearms and the reason why have a second amendment to begin with. The right to bear arms is not for you to have home protection, or for hunting but rather it is for us to protect ourselves against government tyranny. Hence; A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

        No matter what gun laws these quack legislatures come up in the name of security, they all come at the expense of our freedoms and right to own and bear arms. I would never give up liberty for security at the end you lose them both. So people better start waking up like Thomas Jefferson quote un quote the second amendment will be tested when someone comes and tries to take it away. Just remember anytime you try to prohibit something from the free American it only makes things worse Hence the Prohibition of alcohol what did that do, it spawned a mafia and gangsters killing each other in the streets. SO PLEASE MISS US WITH THIS BULL @#$! THE ATF NEED TO KEEP THEIR HANDS OFF 80 Percenters and criminals kill criminals so be it, SAVES US MONEY ON JAILING ON HOUSING THEM, governments commit atrocities and murder by the thousands just remember 911 and if you still believe that was not your government then you are ignorant and will get just what you deserve. WAKE UP America.

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    2. I would suggest flipping the script if they refuse a receipt–“How will I prove to the next (agent/agency/jerk) that you have my stuff that they are looking for? Seems you are putting me in a double jeopardy situation if you do not give me proof that you took it, and that makes you in potentially illegal posession of a stolen firearm that I will report as stolen the minute you leave here.”

      Just a thought.

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  2. One way to go about it is to tell them it’s in a scrap yard somewhere because you over drilled a hole and it is no longer useable (don’t keep it at your house) and when they search if you give them permission (I advise you don’t) or by warrant and they don’t find it yeah they will question you more and use scare tactics to try to get you to brake. Never change your story ever

    Side note they will watch you for a while so don’t just go get it or to its location for a while

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    1. Do not lie to the ATF.

      Don’t give the appareance of lying.

      You’ll become a felon quickly.

      Dont talk to the atf without a lawyer. Dont open the door to the art.

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      1. Corect.. dont lie. BUT asking them pointed questioins about what they are looking for, and why they think I have it, and where it is, and why they think they ought totake it is not lying to them. Askingthem to show you prrof you had it and still do have it is not lying, either. DEmanding they get a court issued warrant is not lying. Refusing to asner their questioins is not lying, either, it is standing on my right to remain silent., and/r to refuse to incriminate myself. Of course, by then I’d have made dang sure that evein if they DID bring a warrant and decide to search for it, they’ll never find it. A smallish chunk of aluminium? Let them search through literally tonnes of car parts and scrap metal in my yard. Let them dig up the frshly distubed soil under the apple tree out back. Let them peer into the petrol tanks of the old trucks sitting out there. Let them overturn the flower pots on the front porch, and the bac k porch as well. Laugh heartily at them as they waste all our time. IF I had one it would be where they will NEVEr dfind it. And if I have not lied to them there is nothing they can do to me. I CAN refuse to answer their dumb questions. Smart ones too. They can show me a copy of the invoice on which they claim I purchased it, then I can ssek them how they KNOW I still have it, or its later disposition.

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      1. More ignorance from you. Get weapons you can register? Are you serious? I don’t have any of mine registered and never will. They are the first guns that will be taken. Talk about bending over for daddy government.

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      2. I greatly prefer to own weapons that are NOT registered, and that they cannot trace to me. They are on a need to know basis, and I decide what they need to know. I like guns that were purchased before all this nics 4473 and background check nonsense commenced. They are not traceable to anyone. I like that.

        As to registering? Not gonna happen. I’ve read far too much about how thigns went down in Europe Australie, EnZed, Canada, England, and are going down now in those places. If “they” don’t have any record that I bought something, they won’t be nipping round to take it up again, will they? Their ignorance is my bliss.

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  3. It is the Fascists that will come for your guns with strong arm tactics. Those horrible Anti-fascist Libs believe in due process and rights of representation.

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  4. I am a member of the USCCA I pay every month. We have a lawyer we can get 24-7, I think any gun people wether you carry or not to join. It’s great , they will be there for you!

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  5. IF you comply, only give up the actual frame. Nothing else. No trigger, barrel, slide, sights, spring, parts kit, mags. NOTHING but the actual frame itself. That is the ONLY part technically legally considered a “firearm”.

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  6. Thank you Mr. Prince for helping us with your great advice. It feels like law abiding gun owners are in for a fight. It is nice to know you are there for us!

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    1. Mr prince’s advice is nothing but bunk. He is just scaring you in obtaining his services. Any law abiding knows that lying will get you locked up. This is just a way for people who can’t get permits to obtain weapons. Again, do it lawfully. If you have nothing to hide, then register to obtain a permit.

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      1. mrcardsfan1: You must live in some leftist state. Living in a free state I don’t need a permit and i sure as hell don’t have to register anything.

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      2. You really need to stop with the stupidity. I don’t have to register anything to legally own a gun. And I don’t have to have a license to carry. I still have one so when I travel to a state that isn’t as free as mine I can still carry. Gun laws were created to control us, not to make us safe.

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      3. Your an idiot. Theyre coming for anything ran thru the ffl. I’ll keep mine you surrender your..hahaha dumbass fucking fake Americans. Thank God your gene pool wasn’t around when the country was built.

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      4. I am sure that Mr. Prince is of course pleased to have work to do however I must take serious exception with you calling him a liar. I do not believe that he is a liar, directly, indirectly or through omission. Lying to the scab Police/ATf etc is not helpful. Actually saying anything to them is only going to be more of a problem. It is the Governments burden to prove their case. What you purchased, what it is legally, what happened with it as one person pointed out that many ended up trashed due to failures in ability to finish them. I watched a video called “shut the fuXk up friday” Very funny and very good. I respect your opinion however think you should change your posted name to “Mr. Ben Dover”. I am retired LEO and as many people state and it has been my direct experience that criminals will get firearms through burglaries/thefts and many I have recovered have had their serial numbers obliterated.(another stuatory offense)

        Lets face it the 2nd Amendment is about tyranical government which is exactly what has been going on and certain groups in the governemnt who wnat to abolish, diminish, destroy and delete the US Constitution. The term “law abiding gun owners” is very fowl in that it refers to a group that blindly follows without exception laws that may or may not be legal or lawfull within the frame work of our US Constitution.

        In terms of nothing to hide, maybe you should ask yourself are the American people so evil that every everything they do, everything they buy need to be monitored by the NSA, the US Government that wants to make us all slaves and peasants? You feel no one has any expectation of privacy but have complete faith in the US Government that hides and lies about everything. I wish you well and hope that you will examine the issues more closely.

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  7. This is a violation of your second amendment rights. Telling someone to forfeit their rights by giving the ATF your property “under protest” and signing a stupid form is LUDICROUS! If I hear knock, knock, they’ll hear pew, pew!

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  8. After spending 43-years of my life in the Army, defending our rights and freedoms, it will take more than an ATF spokesman to infringe on my right to possess or bare arms.

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  9. You know, on multiple occasions I have had law enforcement at my door and unless I have called them myself, i will not answer the door. I like the idea of telling them I overmilled it. They will try to scare you but without a warrant they cannot breach. Dont answer the door. All your attorney and get the item off site. This is when we have to put our money where our mouths are. “WE WILL NOT COMPLY!”

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      1. Keep an ingot of aluminum/polymer of the appropriate weight. Tell them that you’ve melted it down. Let them prove it’s not your 80%.

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  10. Do they have rights to make entry to my home for confiscation? If they make the decision to come knocking they’ll get them regardless of how we respond so I’d rather have it done on the front lawn instead of inside.

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  11. TELL THEM TO PISS OFF AND GIVE THEM
    YOUR ATTORNEY’S PHONE 📞# AND TELL THEM TO CALL YOUR ATTORNEY AND TALK TO HIM/HER ABOUT IT. BUT DO THIS THROUGH YOUR DOOR, “DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR FOR THEM

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  12. I thoroughly believe that all of you gun nuts are nothing more than white supremacists you know the proud boys got stabbed and arrested that’s what should happen to you only I pray daily that people like you shoot yourselves whether by accident or otherwise the world does not need you go away find an island and go there

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      1. Karen Anderson is an INtolerant liberal. If she wants to live in a place where no one (but criminals and government, pardon my redundance) possess firearms, I’m sure places like Cuba and Venezuela would welcome her with open arms…..

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    1. Thank you Karen Anderson for taking a group of individuals and categorizing them into a group and then labeling them, 100 percent all of them.

      I think you need to examine your own behavior. Thank you for exposing and posting your thoughts. I support everyone having the ability to post their views and opinion.

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  13. How are the agents not violating 18 USC 242 in doing this? I mean, they clearly are, but how are they getting around it? Could one contact their, hopefully, constitution supporting sheriff in this situation in an attempt to warn said ATF agent of the felony they’re about to commit?

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  14. How about don’t comply at all, you want to keep giving up ground to these communist who already have you backed in the corner. Stop giving ground.

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  15. “If the atf has violated your rights…” If this happens then they did. Period. They should not be coming to take private property. The atf is not a legislative authority so they don’t make laws. The atf is rogue. They need to be disbanded.

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  16. You have no responsibility to even answer the door. if someone comes to your door that you don’t know I would strongly suggest not answering it. Let them go get a warrant

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  17. All this does is make people vulnerable to violence and or harm by leaving them defenseless. What criminal will obey the seizure? None!!! Depending on a police officer to protect you is not an option. On average there is a 10 minute wait. First you call dispatch, tell them the situation, they then radio the officer, then the officer has to get to your location. Now this is only if you are able to get to a phone. Meanwhile you are at the mercy of the invader(s)
    Off duty officers should not have firearms in the home or on their person, government officials should not have their armed guards. They are all paid by the people (taxes) for the people. The rules need to apply to everyone not just the civilian population. As we have seen over the last few years, the people in power are the largest group of criminals in our country and yet they make the laws that effect everyone but themselves (criminals)
    We shall not comply

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  18. I question the oath the ATF took, im sure its the same as the military and law enforcement. How do we hold them accountable to the oath the swore by? And who is the ome that will arrest them for not doimg so. ATF at that point is committing treason right?

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  19. Are you recommending that P80 owners relinquish the P80 item only after ATF obtains a warrant for the seizure? Or are you recommending that owners relinquish the item “under protest” prior to ATF obtaining a warrant? Could an owner that is legally able to own firearms be prosecuted at all if they only relinquish the item after requiring the ATF to obtain a warrant?

    Thanks!

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  20. All this hokey pokey is doing is giving real crooks a better chance of getting away with a home invasion type crime, in the time that it takes for law enforcement to arrive the deed has already been done. This is the reason smart gun owners do not register their firearms! Have your AR 15 built by an small businessman not a mass producer! Use your head ppl. If you can legally carry possess or own a firearm no one should be coming to your door including these dumbasses. Now that we have a real problem about to take over the White House any smart gun owner will not relinquish their firearm and protect their second amendment.
    A revelation is on the horizon!

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  21. Ok, using simple mathematics, Polymer 80 was selling a buy,build,shoot kit. Which contained the following:
    80% lowered frame kit
    100% slide
    100% trigger group
    Complete barrel
    If you add all of that up and divide, they were now selling a 97% complete firearm with no serial numbers as.

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    1. Not a firearm (80% receiver is just a trade name, not a legal term)
      Not a firearm (100% slide is just parts)
      Not a firearm (100% trigger group is just parts)
      Not a firearm (“complete barrel” is just part)
      0% + 0% + 0% = 0% = 0%
      0% / 4 = 0%

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    2. yu forgot the 17% of MY labour needed to complete the lower reciever, then complete the build, fit and finihs, proof test, etc, so the whole thing you bought WAS onl 80%.

      But that’s not the gig. The lower IS the firearm, and when that lower is only 80% finished it is NOT a firearm, per Federal law. Else why would a COMPLETE finished lower receive=er BE the firarm with none of the rest of the stuff in the kit? YOu don’t make a licke of sense. Must be a gummit dweeb.

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  22. “Just comply but let them know you are mad”

    NO. NOT ONCE INCH FURTHER. VOTING DOESNT WORK AND NEITHER DOES HARSH LETTERS.

    CHANNE HEEMEYER AND RETAKE YOUR FREEDOM!

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  23. Hello mr prince ,I am wondering if we the people can sue any state or county for stealing our votes and or acts of treason for unconstitutional behavior?thank you terry moser

    Sent from my iPad

    >

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  24. All the laws on the books is an infringement on the 2nd amendment.
    It does not say shall not be infringed unless we feel like it.
    Those Jack booted thugs can go to hell if they think I’m going to just give up my rights!

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  25. I’m not a lawyer but retired military and law enforcement, so a lawyer may have a different view. I would consider having a plan you may have previously discussed with your lawyer. I would consider calling a response of your county sheriff’s deputies to be present an record the incident on a police report. Depending on where you live in the US, this may be to your advantageous especially if you county is a declared “Second Amendment sanctuary.” Video record the incident (if a picture is worth a thousand words, a video id worth millions), agents names and heir attitude on video is important.

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